Why We Use The Wrong Argument Against Red Flag Laws

Sean Sorrentino opened my eyes regarding red flag laws. In a segment originally posted to the Assorted Calibers Podcast, he said we shouldn’t argue on due process grounds. Instead the argument against red flag laws is that they don’t work.

These laws arrest the gun and leave the dangerous or troubled person on the streets. There are a myriad of ways that they still can harm either themselves or us. You need only look in your kitchen or medicine chest to know that.

You may not agree with Sean on whether or not due process is afforded to the person in question. However, it is hard to argue that these laws are effective.

I met with Sean last week while he and his lovely wife were coming through the area on vacation. I mentioned I really liked that segment. He graciously has uploaded it to YouTube specifically so I could embed it. My thanks to Sean for doing this.

Red Flag Laws Are Getting Trump’s Support

In his remarks today on the mass murders in El Paso and Dayton, President Trump called for the passage of red flag laws.

Fourth, we must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to public safety do not have access to firearms, and that, if they do, those firearms can be taken through rapid due process. That is why I have called for red flag laws, also known as extreme risk protection orders.

If a person is such a danger, they need to be confined. Mentally disturbed individuals as well as terrorists have used many other instruments besides firearms to kill large numbers of innocent people. Little more than two weeks ago, an disturbed individual killed 33 people in an anime studio in Japan by setting it in fire. This followed an earlier stabbing rampage in May that left one schoolgirl dead and 16 more injured. Islamofascists in Europe have used cars and trucks to run down people attending street fairs. They have attacked and killed people in New York City using rented trucks. So why just guns when flammables, knives, and vehicles have all been used in mass attacks in recent times?

Sebastian at Shall Not Be Questioned brings up an interesting point. Now that Chris Cox has left or been ousted from the NRA, it is left to Wayne LaPierre to try and control Trump’s worst impulses regarding firearms. I doubt Wayne is up to the task.

You can be sure that the gun prohibitionists will laugh in Trump’s face as they rush to pass more gun control without the quid pro quo that he thinks supporting it will get.

The Firearms Policy Coalition released a statement which I will quote in part below. I think they have a very good understanding of what these calls for more restrictions on our freedoms and liberties mean for us as individuals and as a nation.

It is disingenuous and immoral to ratify and incent evil acts of the very few by responding in kind with broad restrictions on the fundamental human rights of the People that pre-exist government itself. We will not accept this as a means of affecting change in a free society. The loss of human lives will always affect and change us, but they must never be allowed to alter our fundamental principles, freedoms, and commitment to individual liberty.

To be sure, our Constitution and society are at an unprecedented crossroads. Politicians and presidential candidates now openly call for a fundamental transformation of our system of laws: from a constitutional republic of free men and women founded in federalism and individual liberty, to a nation-state of subjects ruled with an iron fist from ivory towers and Washington, D.C.

Protecting the People and their human rights and property from the tyranny of mob rule and capricious political winds is a unique feature of our Republic—one that we fiercely defend even when doing so may be unpopular.

Stabbed In The Back Again

Eight years of Obama brought no new gun control at the federal level. Three years of President Trump has brought an unconstitutional ban on bumpstocks, no Hearing Protection Act, no national reciprocity, and now a call for more gun control in the wake of the murders in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio.

If he thinks that Democrats will trade gun control for funding a “the wall”, he is sadly mistaken. They will do a bait and switch saying they will support “the wall” after passing red flag laws and universal background checks (and other gun control) but then do nothing about funding the wall.

Right now I don’t give a big rat’s ass about a wall along the border that would have marginal effectiveness. I do care about any denigration of the Second Amendment and gun rights.

By the way, all indications are that virtually every mass murderer in the last 10 years has gone through a NICS check. These bills would do nothing to have prevented them from obtaining the firearm in question.

A Dating Partner Of The Respondent?

The proposed red flag for North Carolina, HB 454, includes in its definition of “family or household member” as someone you are dating. Thus, someone you go out with on a blind date would be eligible to seek an “Extreme Risk Protection Order” which would order the police to take all your firearms. They could do this electronically, with no court costs, and, if they possessed a valid “Address Confidentiality Program” authorization card, could keep their address secret.

Do we really need the modern day equivalent of the Star Chamber?

I say no and so does Grass Roots North Carolina which issued the following alert:

GO ON A DATE, LOSE YOUR GUNS












Like everyone else, Gun Owners have the Constitutional right to due
process and the presumption of innocence. House Bill 454 would change all of that, allowing anyone in an ever-expanding circle
of people, including a ‘dating partner,’ to decide you are ‘imminently dangerous’ and direct the authorities to confiscate
your guns.

H454 doesn’t
define ‘dating partner,’ ‘imminent’ or what makes someone a ‘danger to themselves or
others
’.  But keep in mind that those who would deny your Second Amendment rights often consider any gun
owner to be
‘dangerous,’ and they would be able to force the confiscation of your
guns without your foreknowledge (through an ex parte hearing).


So let’s say you go on a casual
outing with someone who knows you have guns, and they decide to
“report”  you, for revenge, out of spite or whatever (due to unrequited
interest, for example). They can honestly claim to be a
‘dating partner,’ a term entirely undefined by H454, and have your
property confiscated at the point of a gun.

On top of all of this, the authorities can charge you
a storage fee for keeping your guns and ammunition. They take your guns against your will and in violation of your rights, and you get to
pay for the privilege
! Nothing in the
proposed law would stop the authorities from test firing your guns for a
ballistics database to see if they were used in a crime, or doing
anything else with them for that matter. While you may have to undergo a
‘mental health’ or ‘chemical dependency’ evaluation to keep what you
already own, your accuser has the option of staying anonymous under the
Address  Confidentiality  Program’. How nice for the accuser who will never have to confront you in court, in blatant
violation of the 6th Amendment.

Laws
already exist for
Involuntary Civil Commitment, and these provide due process, but
apparently, these aren’t good enough for the gun grabbers. In addition
to
being unconstitutional, clearly this new form of government overreach
isn’t effective, as research shows that these new laws
do not work as advertised.

Please Contribute to GRNC-PVF

It’s going
to be a busy year in the world of freedom-fighting. At the same, time
multiple special elections approach, House and Senate bills, both good
and bad, are being filed in the General Assembly. Funds and volunteers
are
already stretched thin, and we’re still climbing toward peak activity.
Now more than ever, this all-volunteer organization needs your support.
Anything you could spare will help GRNC-PVF and would be greatly
appreciated, and let’s face it, with all that’s coming our
way, donations are nothing less than an investment in the future of gun freedom in our state. Please
CLICK
HERE
to donate to GRNC-PVF



Support “Rights Watch International
AmazonSmile Learn more about Rights Watch
International


You shop. Amazon
Gives.
(What is Amazon Smile?)


IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED!



  • EMAIL BOTH PARTY’S LEADERS IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY:
    Below, find the copy/paste contact
    information you need to tell the party leadership that this
    unconstitutional gun control bill must not receive a hearing. Use the
    copy/paste text
    provided under the ‘Deliver This Message’ section.


  • PLEASE CONTRIBUTE TO GRNC-PVF: Help us fight gun control while we promote Second Amendment principles.
    Please CLICK
    HERE
    to contribute. Bear in mind that GRNC is an all-volunteer organization, so you can be sure your donations are put to the best
    possible use. Any amount helps, and any amount is appreciated.

NC General Assembly
Leadership copy/paste email list
:
Tim.Moore@ncleg.net;
Sarah.Stevens@ncleg.net; John.Bell@ncleg.net; Jon.Hardister@ncleg.net;
Darren.Jackson@ncleg.net; Cynthia.Ball@ncleg.net; Deb.Butler@ncleg.net;
Carla.Cunningham@ncleg.net; Garland.Pierce@ncleg.net;
Amos.Quick@ncleg.net;
Phil.Berger@ncleg.net; Harry.Brown@ncleg.net; Dan.Blue@ncleg.net;
Jay.Chaudhuri@ncleg.net; Rick.Gunn@ncleg.net; Jerry.Tillman@ncleg.net;
Ted.Davis@ncleg.net; David.Lewis@ncleg.net

DELIVER THIS
MESSAGE

Suggested Subject: Stop H454,
the Gun Confiscation Bill
Dear Republican Leader:

I
am writing today because I am outraged
over H454’s attempted erosion of Constitutional liberties, in
particular, the right to due process.  With just the word of a ‘dating
partner’ (an undefined term), someone’s firearms can be forcibly
confiscated by law enforcement. This confiscation would be based on
‘dangerous behavior,’ another term that the bill doesn’t define.



Those
who are hostile to the Second Amendment often (and
absurdly) consider gun owners dangerous by their mere existence.
Considering that, and the fact that anyone, out of spite or revenge,
would be
able to have a citizen’s guns forcibly taken from him or her, these
constitutionally abhorrent orders will, in essence, legally codify the
practice of
‘SWAT-ing’ anyone who owns or is believed to own a gun.

For these reasons, I’m insisting that you take whatever legislative steps necessary to halt this freedom denying measure.

Do
the right thing:
use your position to take active steps to make sure this ominous gun
control bill will never have a hearing, and never receive a vote. I will
be
closely monitoring your actions regarding this gun control bill through
alerts from Grass Roots North Carolina.

Respectfully,

I think Black Rifle Coffee has captured the type of “dating partner” who might file for a ERPO if they knew you possessed a firearm in the video below. Yes, it is a spoof but the reality is that there are men and women like that out in society.

Give Thom A Call This Morning

Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC) has been equivocating on red flag laws in his letters to constituents (like me!). Tillis is also a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee which is holding hearings on red flag laws. Now is the time to send Thom a message regarding red flag law. Grass Roots North Carolina is asking for people to give his office a call this morning to let him know this ain’t OK.

Tillis, by the way, is up for reelection in 2020 so he is in that part of his term where he needs to play politician 100% of the time. We need to use that to our advantage.

From the GRNC alert:

STOP ‘RED FLAG’ LAWS:
CALL THOM TILLIS

On
Friday night, GRNC alerted supporters to the fact that US Senator Thom Tillis (R-NC)
looks to be capitulating to his
anti-gun colleagues in Washington. Tillis has telegraphed his support
for “Extreme Risk Protection Orders” (or “Red Flag” laws) by
supporting S. 7. This
bill would allow
the word of an accuser, voicing “concerns,” to strip a citizen of
several of the Constitutional protections guaranteed by the Bill of
Rights—without due process
. Yet, in Senator Tillis’ recent
correspondence with concerned constituents, he did not address any
of the glaring and very serious problems with S. 7. Telling the “whole”
truth is to tell the truth. Omitting critical details on such an
important matter is, well… something else. This does not inspire voter
confidence in Tillis’ resolve to support the Bill of Rights.

Unfortunately, it looks like the
Judiciary Committee, of which Tillis is a member, will conduct a hearing on S. 7 on March 26. Human rights are non-negotiable, and
therefore, Tillis must not vote for this bill—but he seems poised to
.

As part of
Friday’s alert, we asked gun owners and other supporters of the Bill of
Rights
to phone Thom Tillis’ DC office on Monday morning
(3/18/2019), and this alert is a friendly
reminder to do just that. Below, in the Immediate Action section, find
details on how to reach Tillis and demand that he stand for the 2nd,
4th, 5th
and 6th Amendments, not against them. 

To read more about “Red Flag” laws, and Thom Tillis’
willingness, to cozy up to them as a member of the powerful Senate
Judiciary Committee, click to read Friday’s
alert
, and/or click to read a previous alert on
the topic
.

Support “Rights Watch International
AmazonSmile Learn more about Rights Watch
International


You shop. Amazon
Gives.
(What is Amazon Smile?)


IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED!



  • PHONE SENATOR THOM TILLIS: On
    Monday morning
    (3/18/2019), please phone Thom Tillis’s DC office at this number: (202) 224-6342.
    If you
    can’t call in the morning, please call as soon as you can after that.
    Deliver the following message to Tillis’ staff or his voice-mail.
     
Hello,
I am calling about the senator’s recent correspondence on the topic of
Senate Bill 7, “Extreme Risk Protection Orders,” sometimes called, “red
flag” laws. In this correspondence, he conspicuously
failed to address the severe Constitutional problems with red flag laws;
the establishment of ex parte hearings is just one of many examples. In
fact,
these laws threaten Second, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendment
protections—at least.

I am quite
troubled by Senator Tillis’ effort to dance around the major problems
with red flag laws and I expect him to be more candid, indeed more
honest, with me in the future. As a North Carolina voter and a gun
owner, I also
expect the senator to live up to his oath of office, to the Republican
Party’s platform, to the pro-Second Amendment statement on his own
website, and to do everything in his power to defeat this revolting,
un-American bill, and any other bill like it. Thank
you.

GRNC Alert On US Senate Gun Control Hearings

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) who suddenly grew a spine during the Kavanaugh hearings may be backsliding a bit. As chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee he plans to hold hearings on gun control including on red flag laws. The Brady Campaign is crowing about it in an email and set up a special alert so as to pack the hearing room.

Grass Roots North Carolina took notice of the hearing a bit earlier and sent out their own alert. This is one that readers from anywhere can use to contact Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee. If you are from a state where one of your senators is a member of the committee, make sure to use their email contact form. Just modify the one GRNC composed to be sent to Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC).

From GRNC:

THE GOP THREATENS A
GUN CONFISCATION
SCHEME


Is the old Lindsay back? According to US Senator Lindsay Graham (R-SC), so-called “red flag” laws are an area where
Republicans may just reach across the aisle…



As you review the details below, please keep a few things in mind:
  • “Red Flag Law” and “Extreme Risk Protection
    Order” are simply euphemisms for the unlawful suspension of a person’s constitutional rights, absent any due process
    , based
    solely on hearsay from an accuser who has neither witnessed a crime, nor been victimized by one.
     

  • The US House is currently held by Nancy Pelosi’s extremely anti-gun party. This means the Senate may be the
    only reliable road block to extremist gun control bills. Yet, we now see influential Republican senators suggesting they just might send a
    “red flag” bill to Speaker Pelosi for her party’s rubber stamp
    .


  • If it can pass the Senate, it’ll breeze through the House, and then it’s on to the
    President, who unfortunately, seems
    open
    to unconstitutional ‘red flag’ laws
    , and who gets along great with Lindsay Graham.

This is Serious

Wednesday,
speaking on CNN as the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee,
Senator Graham confirmed that the powerful
committee will hold a hearing on gun control. The hearing is expected to
cover “extreme risk protection” orders (“red flag”
laws). Gun control is a topic usually shunned by members of the
Republican held senate, and rightfully so. This is why their sudden
interest in a gun
control hearing is an ominous sign. 


Click here to read the CNN story, a
story that quotes Senator Graham (emphasis ours):

I think there’s a lot of common ground

[with Democrats] on enrolling people in
the background system who
are a
danger to themselves or others.
It’s probably safe to assume that you
don’t want to be “enrolled” in anything
concocted by Lindsay Graham and approved by Nancy
Pelosi, especially when it comes to infringements on your Constitutionally guaranteed rights.

The CNN Story goes on:

Graham, a supporter and strong ally of President Trump also says he has spoken with the President about it.

(See the last bullet point,
above)
.

Say NO to Ending
American Due Process

It is critical that
each of us contact the Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee. Particularly North Carolina’s own, Senator Thom Tillis. Below,
see how you can reach each member, starting with Senator Tillis, and let them know that you expect them to stand for due process, for
gun rights, and against “red flag” laws
. 

Support “Rights Watch International
AmazonSmile Learn more about Rights Watch
International


You shop. Amazon
Gives.
(What is Amazon Smile?)


IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED!



  • SEND AN EMAIL MESSAGE TO US SENATOR THOM TILLIS
    (R-NC)
    : Tillis is a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Use the link provided below, under ‘Contact Info,’ to
    visit his Senate contact form. Use the copy/paste message provided below, under ‘Deliver This
    Message
    .’   

  • PHONE ALL SENATE JUDICIARY REPUBLICANS: Use the phone numbers provided below. Tell them you
    are calling about the Judiciary Committee’s upcoming gun control hearing (March 26), and make the following points:

    • “Red
      flag” or “extreme risk
      protection” laws are a blatant violation of the due-process rights
      guaranteed to each citizen by the Constitution, not to mention a
      violation
      of Second Amendment rights themselves.

    • The Senator surely knows that the term “red flag law” is simply a euphemism for the unlawful suspension of Constitutional
      rights, and the suspension of these rights is based on hearsay from someone who was neither a witness to, nor a victim of, a
      crime.
    • Supporting this type of legislation would be a violation of the senator’s oath of office and would
      be a severe breach of the trust the senator has earned from the voters. 
    • No American lawmaker could support this sort of law and still
      claim to be a supporter and protector of the Bill of Rights. Therefore, I demand that the senator lend
      precisely zero support to any gun control legislation, particularly “red flag” bills.




  • PLEASE CONTRIBUTE TO
    GRNC
    : Help us fight gun control while we promote Second Amendment principles. Please CLICK HERE to contribute. Bear in mind that GRNC is an all-volunteer organization, so you can be sure your
    donations are put to the best possible use. Any amount helps, and any amount is appreciated.

Republicans on the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee: 
Committee Member Contact Info

Sen. Thom Tillis (NC)

(Please phone & email Sen. Tillis. Copy/paste text below.)
(202) 224-6342
web contact form
(email): 

www.tillis.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/email-me
Sen. Lindsay Graham (SC) (Chairman) (202) 224-5972
n. Chuck Grassley (IA) (202) 224-3744
Sen. John Cornyn (TX) (202) 224-2934
Sen. Mike Lee (UT) (202) 224-5444
Sen. Ted Cruz (TX) (202) 224-5922
Sen. Ben Sasse (NE) (202) 224-4224
Sen. Joshua Hawley (MO) (202) 224-6154
Sen. Joni Ernst (IA) (202) 224-3254
Sen. Mike Crapo (ID) (202) 224-6142
Sen. John Kennedy (LA) (202) 224-4623
Sen. Marsha Blackburn (TN) (202) 224-3344

DELIVER THIS
MESSAGE

Suggested Subject: “NO to Unconstitutional ‘Red
Flag’ Laws!
”  
Dear Senator Tillis:

It has come my attention that the Senate
Judiciary Committee intends to hold a gun control hearing on or around
March
26. I also understand that the committee chairman has expressed a
willingness to work with Democrats on gun control, specifically
so-called “red
flag” laws.

“Red flag” or “extreme risk protection” laws are a blatant violation of
the due-process rights guaranteed to each citizen by
the Constitution, not to mention a violation of Second Amendment rights
themselves. Because of this, supporting this type of legislation would
be a
violation of your oath of office and would be a severe breach of the
trust you’ve earned from the voters you serve. 

You know as well as I that “red flag
law” is simply a euphemism for the unlawful suspension of (several)
Constitutional rights. The suspension of these rights is based on
hearsay
from someone who was neither a witness to, nor a victim of, a crime. No
American lawmaker could support this sort of law and still claim to be a
supporter and protector of the Bill of Rights.

Therefore, I demand that you lend precisely zero
support to any gun control legislation, particularly “red flag”
bills. Rather, I expect you to speak against “red flag” laws, exposing
them for what they are.

I will be monitoring your actions on this
matter through alerts from Grass Roots North Carolina.

Respectfully, 

Satire Is Sometimes The Best Way To Get The Message Across

A group of ham actors on YouTube calling themselves “Gun Control Hunters”  have created an excellent satire about red flag laws. The video below is a parody but it gets the message across that red flag laws are dangerous, evil, and contemptuous of the Constitutional rights such as due process.

Share this video with your friends, family, and especially those on the fence about red flag laws aka extreme violence protection orders.

Oleg On Red Flag Laws

Oleg Volk posted a comment on Facebook on Sunday evening that needs repeating. It is in reference to Red Flag Laws. Everyone who supports these ill-conceived laws and every politician who plans to vote for them needs to read it, digest it, and understand it.

A fun thought about Red Flag laws: the confiscators have no way of telling that they got all the available weapons. Even if the confiscation proceeds without gunfire, they’ve created an understandably disgruntled person with access to weapons (not limited to guns) and a kill list, starting with the finks and probably encompassing everyone who signed off on the confiscation, and those who helped carry it out. In other words, made the accusation a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Oleg points out something that I hadn’t even considered. While I consider Red Flag Laws dangerous to civil rights, to due process, and to the person whose guns are being confiscated, I failed to consider that the application of such laws might be the trigger for someone who had not previously thought of violent actions.

The law of unintended consequences indeed. 

Yes, Thank You Moms Demand Action In NC

Mike Bloomberg, billionaire, former mayor of New York City, erstwhile potential Democrat candidate for President, and funder of all things gun control put out this tweet yesterday evening.

Yes, thank you for your continued support of a Jim Crow era law, the pistol purchase permit system, that was intended to keep African-Americans, union members, and Republicans disarmed.

Yes, thank you for your support of red flag laws that turn Due Process on its head and that will get innocent people killed.

Yes, thank you for making our schools less safe by your continued opposition to any policy that would let trained teachers and administrators carry firearms to protect the students under their care.

Yes, thank you for supporting efforts to introduce even more government interference into private affairs by demanding universal background check.

Yes, thank you for all you do to make North Carolina a less safe place for ordinary, law abiding Tar Heels and more safe for criminals who, by definition, ignore the law.

 There is plenty more for which we can thank the North Carolina contingent of Moms Demand Action but saving lives isn’t one of them.