by HB 189 – Freedom to Carry NC Act has been withdrawn from a vote by the full North Carolina House of Representatives and referred back to the House Rules Committee. The bill, formerly known as the NC Constitutional Carry Act, may be dead for this session unless Rep. Keith Kidwell (R-79) can add a fiscal note to the bill. It should be noted that Rep. Kidwell is the Deputy Majority Whip. As noted earlier, the crossover deadline for passage of a bill without a fiscal note is tomorrow, May 4th.
So who is at fault and what happened?
You have your choice.
You can blame Speaker Tim Moore who requested a training component be part of the bill, you can blame the NRA who has now come out in opposition to the bill at the last moment because it includes a training component, or Sen. President Pro Tem Phil Berger who says they’ve done enough on gun rights.
Given the NRA had a chance to testify either for or against the bill during the Judiciary 2 Committee hearing and did not, I think the blame rests more at their feet than that of Speaker Moore. I think Speaker Moore anticipated the opposition from some in law enforcement as well as from the anti-gun lobby and wanted to negate the rationale for their opposition to the bill. As for Sen. Berger, this is not the first time he’s decided to kill attempts at permitless carry. He did it in the 2017-2018 session after it had passed the House because he was afraid of losing his super-majority which he lost anyway.
From the Raleigh News and Observer:
Grass Roots North Carolina, a gun rights group that was one of the bill’s chief supporters, had strongly urged GOP leaders to take it up this week. The group’s president, Paul Valone, said he would continue to work on trying to get the bill passed this session.
Valone indicated that the National Rifle Association had concerns about education requirements that had been added to the bill on Tuesday while it was considered by a House committee.
“We are disappointed that the NRA, which has been largely absent in this session of the General Assembly, swooped in at the last minute and declared the bill unacceptable, due to the training provision we had added,” Valone said. “We are continuing to work on the bill, it is still alive, and we are by no means done.”
D.J. Spiker, the NRA’s North Carolina state director, said in response that the NRA “will never apologize for refusing to compromise on an issue as critical as Constitutional Carry.”
Sen. Berger said as the bill was being removed from the calendar that he thought the Republicans had done enough when they finally got rid of the pistol purchase permit. He also said he didn’t think the timing was right.
From an interview with Michael Hyland of WNCN Channel 17:
“We have passed a substantial bill dealing with some concerns about (the) Second Amendment. We’ve done away with the pistol purchase permit, which was the No. 1 goal of many of the gun rights groups for a long period of time,” Senate leader Phil Berger told reporters. “I just don’t know if if there’s a need for us to delve into additional issues dealing with guns and people’s Second Amendment rights.”
In my estimation, if the NRA had been willing to join with GRNC and GOA in support of the bill, flawed or not, then it would have passed and the NC Senate would have taken up the bill either in 2023 or 2024. As for the NRA’s rationale for opposing the bill of not being willing to compromise their principles, that is a joke. One of the things the NRA always seems willing to do is compromise even when it is not warranted.
I speculate that there was an element of retribution in the NRA’s 11th hour opposition to HB 189. The bill, like the repeal of the pistol purchase permit, was closely identified with Grass Roots North Carolina and not the NRA. The NRA got really pissy when they were called out for taking credit for the repeal and dumping on GRNC for taking the rightful credit. When that is added to the “if it’s not invented here” syndrome which pervades the NRA, it became more important to screw GRNC (and gun rights supporters in North Carolina) than to pass the bill.
Was the bill as clean as one would have liked? Of course it wasn’t. However, in politics it is the art of the possible and not the perfect. Getting HB 189 passed in time to meet the crossover deadline was the critical issue. Once the bill was in the Senate, it could have been amended any number of ways to make it better. Now, unless a miracle happens, thanks to the NRA we wait another two damn years.
At almost 80 years old, I’ve been a NRA member longer than I can remember. When my current membership expires in September of this year, I’ll not renew. Also, my NC NRA license plate, one of the first issued, has been replaced.
Their actions of recent years simply goes against my beliefs of what organizations I should support. Therefore, my dues, and other contributions are going to the SAF, GOA, FPC, and GRNC.
If there is ever a change in leadership, and policies, then I might rethink my position.
I hate to say this, but the sooner the NRA goes bankrupt, or a New York judge cleans house so the membership can salvage something from the ashes, the better.
I get that the NRA is gonna NRA, but why do the sheriffs not support this? Is that the general feeling amongst them or is it the state sheriff org pandering for the urban vote?
If I had to guess, it came down to two factors. The sheriffs would be losing the $85 for each permit. The second was the flimsy excuse that they couldn’t tell who did or did not have a NC CHP when a person was approached. Of course that only works when they stopped a car with NC plates but not an individual on the streets, an out of state car, or any criminal.
During the Indiana hearings on our permit-less carry last year the police acknowledged that they are trained to assume that every vehicle they approach has a gun in it. Their biggest concern was that they could not tell if a person could legally carry if they did not have a handgun carry permit. That is a strange view because Indiana has never had a law requiring a permit to carry a rifle or shotgun just about anywhere in public. During the full Senate session one former police officer, now a senator, pointed that if someone today [back then] is pulled over and had an AR-15 in the back seat there would still be more concern about a derringer in the coffee cup holder and whether there was a license to have it legally carried.
I probably should not offer someone else’s help, but if you know any strong supporters of permit-less carry in your House or Senate you might have them contact Guy Relford who is the head of The 2A Project in Indiana and was instrumental in getting this passed here. He knows some very pro-Constitution legislators in our assembly. They might have some ideas to help your reps.
It took Indiana ten years to get it passed.
My guess would be the money. In Tennessee, Sheriffs supported permitless carry (the state issues the permits so the Sheriffs didn’t lose anything) but the state Police Chiefs organization opposed it, largely (I think) because the cities tend to be more Democrat than Republican).
We had a similar situation in Washington with a motorcycle helmet law repeal. A compromise was reached whereby medical insurance would be required to ride without a helmet. The organization pushing the bill reached the compromise because the major objection was “public cost”. It was felt that the bill could be passed and then the insurance requirement could be dealt with later once it became obvious that there was no more public cost than anything else the public did (demonstrable fact by the way). Several other motorcycle groups who didn’t like the compromise immediately came out vocally and loudly against the bill, the motorcycle community appeared split, the bill failed to pass. We haven’t even had a helmet law repeal bill out of committee since.
All or nothing is a bad strategy for legislation. It’s why the left gets everything they want eventually and the right gets nothing.
cin retrospect, was it a great idea to “publicly put NRA-ILA in it’s place” or, would it have been better for NC citizens if this fight hadn’t taken place in a public way like it did?
Sure, almost all of us felt great satisfaction seeing GRNC “take NRA to task” right? But you had to know that was going to have a cost, and it did. Now, N. Carolinians can take solace that NRA won’t get to take credit for stuff they didn’t do and hopefully that warm feeling carries over to their permit renewals.
Sometimes doing the thing that “Feels good” gets us in trouble. Communications discipline is a finely honed art, it’s never a good idea to send out a retaliatory communication, no matter how justified the author feels it is. Sometimes you need to hold your fire and focus on what’s good for gun owners and not what’s good for ourselves individually.
In retrospect, the NRA should not have claimed credit where the were owed none. Had they not done so, they would not have felt their miniscule honor remaining to have been impugned, and would not have been as inclined to pull the dog-in-the-manger routine yet again.
But, such is to be expected when you put the likes of Charles Cotton that high up in the ranks. He spent literal years fighting against any expansion of carry in Texas.
Agree 100% on Cotton and NC ILA folks trying to steal valor from the people who did all the work. NRA is not the only group who does this in our community, but they have perfected it to an art form.
Still, actions have consequences in the public sphere. Mostly NRA doesn’t care what grassroots groups do, because they are all too happy to capitalize on that work. But they absolutely do care if one other grass roots orgs starts taking credit for a major accomplishment and they will 100% go to legislators to tank it in session.
My point here is that the very public rebuke of NRA here –cost you guys and gals a win–.
Was it more important to spank the NRA ?
Or was permit less carry passing more important.
This was a case study in PR and communications failure. Linguistically, it was excellent and the story told was captivating, but to the outside observer it looked like a schoolyard fight over the kickball.
Holding fire until after the session might have been a better strategy. I’m not saying don’t tell the tale, I’m saying do it when and how it doesn’t cost y’all good legislation for a few minutes of feeling good.
You have a good point about the timing of “spanking the NRA,” but it’s absolutely essential to claim credit were credit is due for an organization’s continued ability to function well. Membership, money, how that translates into political power, all that.
Might also note, again in regards to your timing point, that the NRA is very unlikely to be around in its current form the next time the legislature has an opportunity to pass such a bill.
I get you hate NRA, but this bill compromise is almost as bad as the folks in Utah trying to pass “permitless concealed carry” for an unloaded gun as a compromise starting point. What do they have now after that trash idea was thrown out? Actual Constitutional carry. What was being pushed wasn’t constitutional carry or permitless carry. You shouldn’t be forced to have government mandated training even for a permit. Training is encouraged, but should never be required. The votes aren’t there for a veto override on this issue anyway. It’s pretty clear that NRA has been a driver behind constitutional carry legislation in the majority of states. Just look at the progress that has been made in the last 10 years.
Speaking of the NRA hate, any interest in covering other gun groups and the latest stories about the Second Amendment Foundation and 22 million being funneled to Gottlieb owned entities over the last 10 years?
You are grossly mistaken if you think I hate the NRA. I am an Endowment Life member. Unlike most NRA members, I actually participate in the Meeting of the Members and have proposed resolutions that would have made the NRA a stronger organization. Can you say the same?
I’m sure that you’ll cite Texas as an example of where the NRA was the driver behind constitutional carry. You might want to speak to Texans about how NRA President Charles Cotton tried impede both open carry and constitutional carry for years.
That is a shame…